War & PoliticsAmerican Death Spiral Approaches Nadir

 

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 From:  ANT_THOMAS  
 To:  ALL
42737.41 
I love America. The vastly different landscapes, national parks, the different cultures, small towns, big cities, open roads. It's the place I've been to the most over the last few years (pre-pandemic) and loved roadtripping around various places. I have a very tourist POV, since I am exactly that. But enjoyed being there nonetheless.

Could do with visiting the middle!



I've often wondered about making the move, but the politics and lack of decent healthcare have stopped me from looking into it properly.

One thing I keep finding (in the US and UK) is the view that because someone grew up in an under-privileged situation struggling to make ends meet, with very little disposable income, then everyone else should have to experience that. Rather than having the view that since they had it difficult we should try and make life easier for those after us.

Student loans in the US being a prime example at the moment.
Seen a lot of "well, what about me, I've already paid"
Instead of "yeah, we need to make sure future generations aren't lumbered with the level of debt I was"

You could quite easily relate it to any sort of advancements that actually result in progress in society.
Just because that's how it was done in the past and it has cost some people something doesn't mean it should be that way in the future.
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 From:  milko  
 To:  ANT_THOMAS     
42737.42 In reply to 42737.41 
funnily enough, a lot of the people who want others to 'suffer' as they did (for whatever value of suffer) don't believe in a 100% inheritance tax. 

it reminds me of how often immigrants seem to want to pull up the ladder and have tighter borders once they're safely in. Must be some kind of human instinct to be selfish within whatever you deem your tribe.
milko
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 From:  milko  
 To:  fixrman     
42737.43 In reply to 42737.38 
Quote: 
We don't have National insurance here because Big Insurance and Big Pharma are too powerful... I don't know what the answer could be, but it wasn't Obamacare.
...
If that's the case, why do we have so many people coming here from foreign countries for healthcare? 

The answer to quote one is, you're gonna like this I know, socialized healthcare. Obamacare wasn't going far enough, and you know when you've gone far enough because the costs people pay in tax for it are less than the costs they pay now, for better coverage.

I was comparing the USA with Canada and Europe rather than the whole world since I wouldn't be familiar enough with for example Mexico to really say. Much of South America is likely a mess too - the mischievous part of me wants to say its often down to US interference over the years but of course it's not only that. It cannot be right that you have people dying for lack of insulin (and hey, that's something Biden's apparently already fucked up, freezing Trump's executive order to drop the price on), refusing ambulances due to bills and suchlike. 

I know a paediatrician friend in Boston MA (works in the NICU) and I have no doubt that the quality of healthcare in the US is often excellent if you can afford it. The US mortality rates at birth for another example suggest that not enough can afford it, and/or that there are still other big problems in the way things are being done there.
milko
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 From:  fixrman  
 To:  Manthorp     
42737.44 In reply to 42737.40 
I think you've got an excess of bile in your blood, mate; you're all bitter and nasty. Sometimes one needs to step out of their comfort zone, try something different. You might try being nice,
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  fixrman  
 To:  milko     
42737.45 In reply to 42737.43 
Quote: 
The answer to quote one is, you're gonna like this I know, socialized healthcare.

Who is the who? You do realise that what works for, say, Great Britain may not work for the U.S.? We've got 330 million people here, you don't. 

All I want to know is, who pays for it? I already pay enough in taxes, so don't tell me the answer is taxing more, that's a non-starter.

Quote: 

Much of South America is likely a mess too - the mischievous part of me wants to say its often down to US interference over the years

Sure, blame the U.S. Isn't it just as likely that the country is just screwed up, run by screwups?

Quote: 

It cannot be right that you have people dying for lack of insulin

They're not. They're dying from complications due to diabetes that is poorly managed, mainly because they are too lazy to eat properly and get exercise. The answer isn't more insulin, the answer is people who are motivated to control their disease with a proper diet, not pumping themselves full of insulin. Don't forget, I did medical transports for five years, and took hundreds of people to their dialysis and endocrinologist appointments. In the overwhelming majority of cases, people needing dialysis and diabetic care were overweight and poor eaters. All they wanted to talk about on their rides was what kind of food they ate and loved.

 

Quote: 
I have no doubt that the quality of healthcare in the US is often excellent if you can afford it.

Also if you can't. Most of the people I transported were MA patients.

 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  Manthorp  
 To:  fixrman     
42737.46 In reply to 42737.44 
I save my bile for the deserving.

"We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked."
James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951
 
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 From:  milko  
 To:  fixrman     
42737.47 In reply to 42737.45 
Quote: 
Who is the who? You do realise that what works for, say, Great Britain may not work for the U.S.? We've got 330 million people here, you don't. 

All I want to know is, who pays for it? I already pay enough in taxes, so don't tell me the answer is taxing more, that's a non-starter.

For the love of whatever deity you like, stop only comparing the US to the UK, aka Plague Island, aka Shit Land Ruled By Tory Gangsters. Look also at most countries in Europe, Scandinavia, Canada.

What you pay in taxes for good healthcare is LESS than what you pay in insurance for bad healthcare. Having a lot of people makes this equation easier not harder.
milko
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 From:  milko  
 To:  ALL
42737.48 
While managing diabetes through diet and exercise is absolutely a good thing, the idea that this means you should be charging US prices for insulin is entertainingly bleak. 

I see so much of this at the moment in the world, people desperate to justify misery as being right. Trump fans defending how much of his fundraising goes straight to his bank balance, British people demonising Corbyn-led Labour policies and then acting surprised when the Tories get in again and fuck over the country's economy and health (and everything), it's just sad.
milko
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 From:  Manthorp  
 To:  milko     
42737.49 In reply to 42737.47 
One of the many curiosities of fixrman (and one shared by quite a number of his compatriots) is his assumption that he can needle Teh posse by disparaging Britain or Britishness. This, I feel, says more about his MAGAish mindset than his misreading of the room.

"We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked."
James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951
 
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 From:  Manthorp  
 To:  fixrman     
42737.50 In reply to 42737.45 
Quote: 
I did medical transports for five years, and took hundreds of people to their dialysis and endocrinologist appointments.
I'm not convinced that taxiing people to medical appointments qualifies you to pontificate on clinical issues. However, if you wish to discuss the quickest car routes to the hospital, I will defer to your expertise.

"We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked."
James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951
 
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)   
 To:  fixrman     
42737.51 In reply to 42737.45 
Quote: 
I already pay enough in taxes

Maybe so. As I'm pretty sure you're aware, there's a lot of people who don't pay any taxes, but who have amassed eye-watering fortunes at the literal expense of the common weal, which I suppose is just another word for communism.

If you're down with that, fine. You get to live with the consequences. Blame whoever you please. Just live with it.

"Watch Colorful Paint Smash into Artist’s Face in Super Slow Motion"
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 From:  fixrman  
 To:  Manthorp     
42737.52 In reply to 42737.46 
No, I said urine. But of course that was very clumsy of me. I should have said bile, because that is a more accurate descriptor.
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  fixrman  
 To:  milko     
42737.53 In reply to 42737.47 
If socialized medicine worked here, we'd have it - but it doesn't. We already have forms of it here - called Medicare and Medicaid, and it is not good. There are many reasons it isn't good, the fact that the gummint runs it is the chief reason. Abuse, corruption, and fraud run rampant. Discuss.
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  fixrman  
 To:  Manthorp     
42737.54 In reply to 42737.49 
Interesting is the fact that you totally missed the fact that I am half-British; if I disparaged Britain in some way, then it was only half of what is continually done to America by putzes of your ilk.

I have no desire to needle anyone here, least of all you - as I suspect you are happy in your own world of self-dislike. I find it curious why there is always the jump to ascerbic statement and bitter criticism. Not happy? No hobbies? Jealous of Americans??

MAGAish... that would normally be funny, except I think you meant to be critical. Get your nose out the air.

I find it curious that Manthorp seems to embrace the same characteristics as the worst of the Democrats in America. Please don't visit, you'll just encourage the twits in the cities who are on the dole perpetually.
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  fixrman  
 To:  Manthorp     
42737.55 In reply to 42737.50 
Quote: 
I'm not convinced

I would never try to convince you; that would be impossible, and about as profitable as trying to wrestle a pig in the mud.

 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  fixrman  
 To:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)      
42737.56 In reply to 42737.51 
Quote: 
As I'm pretty sure you're aware, there's a lot of people who don't pay any taxes

What people are those? I also know a lot of people who get free health care, pay no taxes and claim to be indigent, yet they've got an iPhone 12 and a bigger TV than I have, and a pointed stone farmhouse in the wealthy suburbs of Philadelphia.

I do know that there are many poor people who don't pay taxes, and I know there are many people who think there are a lot of people who pay no taxes, mainly because they consider them rich. Then there are the people who think that people who make xxx number of dollars don't pay their fair share.

I will agree with you on a point though: There are plenty in Big Business, Big Finance, Big College, Big Pharma, and Big Government who are bilking the public. A lot of them bankrolled Joke Biden.  (nod) Republicans and Democrats are both guilty of the same thing.

 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  fixrman  
 To:  ALL
42737.57 In reply to 42737.56 
In the end, I suspect that some here would be pleased as punch if America were to fail, despite the fact that America's failure would also drag the rest of the world with it. I find it curious that some here would derive such perverse pleasure at the thought of such massive problems as if there aren't enough already. 

Perhaps some are like Germans, according a German named Berndt, who told me: "Some Germans are only happy when they are unhappy".

But I digress.

 
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  Manthorp  
 To:  fixrman     
42737.58 In reply to 42737.54 
Quote: 
I find it curious why there is always the jump to ascerbic statement and bitter criticism.
Only with you, because you're a troll.

"We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked."
James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951
 
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