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 From:  Manthorp  
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)     
42399.21 In reply to 42399.20 
Ouch! I take partial responsibility for selling it too big, though my conscience does not extend to even partially reimbursing you.

"We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked."
James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951
 
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 From:  william (WILLIAMA)  
 To:  Manthorp     
42399.22 In reply to 42399.21 
I console myself with the thought that I've wasted far more beer tokens elsewhere and that in the grand scheme of my profligacy it's a drip in my gin glass.
never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead
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 From:  william (WILLIAMA)  
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)     
42399.23 In reply to 42399.22 
Also, it is quite a fun game.
never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead
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 From:  Manthorp  
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)     
42399.24 In reply to 42399.23 
There are three special, halcyon maps which owe a considerable debt to Roger Dean. I absolutely love the piece of music that accompanies them. The climax of the game is great, too.

"We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked."
James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951
 
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 From:  Manthorp  
 To:  Manthorp     
42399.25 In reply to 42399.24 
...easily worth £30.

"We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked."
James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951
 
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 From:  william (WILLIAMA)  
 To:  Manthorp     
42399.26 In reply to 42399.24 
Did he try to sue them?
never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead
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 From:  Chris (CHRISSS)   
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)     
42399.27 In reply to 42399.20 
Does that mean you get 6 times as much fun from it?

Me
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 From:  william (WILLIAMA)  
 To:  Chris (CHRISSS)      
42399.28 In reply to 42399.27 
Sadly not. However, I do feel obliged to try harder now.
never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead
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 From:  Chris (CHRISSS)   
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)     
42399.29 In reply to 42399.28 
6 times the pressure to actually play it :) You might not bother if you'd only spent £4.50.

I played the Elite Dangerous training missions last night. It's complicated. Mouse and keyboard controls are interesting. I'm sure a proper controller would make it easier. I managed the first combat training but failed miserably at advanced combat.

Me
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 From:  Manthorp  
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)     
42399.30 In reply to 42399.26 
Not so far, though he has as cut-and dried a case as he had with Avatar. But what's a poor boy to do when the strength of his artistic vision gently tweaks art history? cf. Bridget Riley.

I chatted to him on the phone a couple of times in the mid-nineties. I borrowed his first album cover painting - for Gun - for my Sound & Fury exhibition on the iconography of heavy metal.

He was amiable & grounded; more to the point, he kindly agreed a - ludicrously underestimated -  £45k insurance value for the work because he knew that anything realistic (bearing in mind that he held for some years the record for the most expensive artwork by a living artist, eclipsing de Kooning & Hockney) would be way beyond Bradford AGM's means.

"We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked."
James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951
 
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 From:  william (WILLIAMA)  
 To:  Manthorp     
42399.31 In reply to 42399.30 
Was it cut and dried? I've seen plenty of comparisons and I'll admit that was my first thought too. But then again, what's the relationship between plagiarism and following a paradigm that another artist has established? After all, you only need to stick "Chinese landscape" into Google and it starts to look as though Roger Dean may just have 'followed a paradigm' or two himself. And as for floating islands - they date back through Swift to Homer and probably earlier. Should Braque have paid Picasso royalties? For that matter you can see the pre-echoes of cubism in the painting of Cezanne. I'm not saying Roger Dean wasn't plagiarised, I just think he may have beel ill-advised to sue.
never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead
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 From:  Manthorp  
 To:  william (WILLIAMA)     
42399.32 In reply to 42399.31 
Shifting the paradigm is the nub of it. If an artist is so influential that they move the aesthetic goalposts - Uccello, Harunobu, Picasso etc., then, perversely, they somehow lose the moral copyright; and with it, the legal one, too.

Dean is hardly amongst those luminaries, but his influence on psychedelic and speculative art was profound. He's probably shot himself in the foot.

"We all have flaws, and mine is being wicked."
James Thurber, The Thirteen Clocks 1951
 
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 From:  william (WILLIAMA)  
 To:  Manthorp     
42399.33 In reply to 42399.32 
It's always going to be tricky, which is why lawyers prefer word for word plagiarism when they look at writing. It doesn't help that the industry in popular music litigation, for instance, has descended into absolute bollocks with vague similarities touted as copying, and lawyers counting notes up and notes down to see if there are 4 or 5 matches.

Listened to Danny Boyle interviewed on the subject recently. he mentioned the try-on period leading up to release of a film, when there's so much invested that it can seem cheaper to settle a claim, genuine or not than delay putting it into cinemas. He freely admitted to borrowing from various places when he directed Trainspotting, including A Clockwork Orange and Gravity's Rainbow. In fact he admitted going to some effort to imitate Clockwork Orange look, feel and even camera shots in places. 

Dean does what he does rather well. That said, I agree he's not up there with Picasso et al in that his paradigm is a 'niche' paradigm: he didn't change the course of art, or even the course of fantasy art. As a good dialetical materialist I say that what he does finds its origins in what went before, which is rather obvious really. Was he plagiarised? Probably - a bit Should he have sued or simply basked in the glory of being imitated? Probably basked. It obviously got him pretty angry - enough to instruct a firm of lawyers and risk taking on the big-money. A few bottles of Laphroaig and a few days reflection might have been wiser. It may not be right or just, but it always looks different when somebody who already has the glittering prizes gets litigious to when a newcomer screams that their work has been stolen. Look at the way J K Rowling gets all legal on the heads of her fan-fic followers. Not a good look, particularly in light of the debt she owes to people like Frank Richards, or more to the point, Jill Murphy.
never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead
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 From:  CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)  
 To:  ALL
42399.34 
FWIW I consider Dean a talented illustrator, perhaps less talented than e.g Howard Pyle and Alan Aldridge, and more talented than Norman Rockwell.
“making satanism appear normal”
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 From:  Chris (CHRISSS)   
 To:  ALL
42399.35 
I've had 15 hours in Elite Dangerous now  :-O It's pretty awesome. So far I've been doing courier missions and trading commodities between systems to make enough money to get a new ship. I have a lovely Cobra Mk III now with a fair bit more cargo space. Why I got 30k credits for shipping 3 tons of water for my last mission I don't know.

Me
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