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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)  
 To:  ALL
41449.1 
Car crash.

Car behind me thought I was pulling in to the left and went to go around on my right.

I wasn't pulling in, I was indicating and turning right. Smack.

I did move over to the left a bit, but I don't think significantly, and I was indicating right.

I was definitely indicating right. I always indicate - even when not strictly necessary - and I distinctly remember doing it. When we got out they said I didn't indicate but I remembered then and stated clearly that I did, whether they saw it or not.

I didn't realise they were as close as they were, or I would have actually indicated left and pulled over onto the left, waited for them to go past, and then turned - I've done that before.

I don't know if they were too close, too fast, not paying attention or what. They being two girls, probably young twenties. Though I'm not great with ages and wasn't really looked at them.

I did ask that they were both ok and they said they were. I had knocked the side of my head. A lump/bruise above the ear, but otherwise ok.

We exchanged contact details and car reg/make/colour. Their dad came and helped make sure we had what we needed.

Their car had lots of chassis damage to the front left corner and scrapes along the left side, but after tucking bits up and stuff they were able to drive it.

My car had the chassis embedded into the front right wheel and it didn't look movable.

A woman driving past stopped and said her husband could help move it and was only ten minutes away. The girls dad waited with me for him to arrive, whilst they went home.

The guy arrived with a flatbed truck, said it'd be a write-off because of the chassis/wheel and drove/rolled it to the curb with a lot of noise.

He offered to take it away, but I said no, I had stuff in the boot. (Plus I didn't want to make that sort of decision then.)

Discussing what to do with it, we were going to move it across the road to a better place, but he tried to do so and said the drive shaft was broken and there was no power. So sounds like definitely a write-off.

Couldn't leave it where it was because it was on a junction/bend with a single yellow, so I asked if it could be pulled with a rope and he said yes, and used his truck to pull it back around the corner into the side road - on single yellow, but it's safe for tonight.

He gave me his card so I can contact him if necessary in the morning.

The girl's dad was still here - he had asked a few times if I would be ok now, but I was shaken up and told him I'd be more comfortable with him there if he wouldn't mind staying a bit.

Since the car is probably going to be taken away I need to get my stuff from it, but I thanked him for his help and said I'd go have a cup of tea. I'll sort that stuff out in the morning.

I came in, made some tea, and started writing these notes. Sorry for dumping all this here, but I want to make sure I get write things whilst they're fresh and also some people might have useful advice.

Um, I'm now on second tea and have a pizza, thinking if there's anything I've not written, and realising how late it is now and that probably nobody is around.

Oh well, I'll post it anyway now. Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)  
 To:  ALL
41449.2 
Do insurance companies provide courtesy cars in these situations?
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 From:  fixrman  
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)     
41449.3 In reply to 41449.2 
Well, this side of the pond we'd have called the insurance company. Sounds like she is at fault for the accident and in that case - here - the offending's insurance company pays for deductibles and rental fees.

I have to remember that you lot drive on the wrong side for us, so I'd have to think about that (the scenario) a bit before deciding fault. Were the police involved? If not, that is a definite no-no here. Always get an accident report, that way if a traffic infraction has occurred the officer can not it in the report. He may not issue a citation, but could amend the report later if necessary.

It could be your word against hers, in which case your insurance would pay based on the boundaries of your policy. Here, if you don't have collision but are not at fault, the other driver's insurance has to pay for the rental vehicle. Same goes for the deductible, the only difference being if it is determined a 50/50 accident then you each are responsible for your own damages/rentals/deductibles per your policy. How's it work over there?
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)  
 To:  fixrman     
41449.4 In reply to 41449.3 
She - it was a young woman.

I don't know how it works over here - I've not had to do this before.

The police weren't involved - I didn't know what to do and neither the driver, her dad, nor the recovery guy mentioned them.

It occurred about half ten at night, so insurance company are closed until morning. (I did say at one point do we call insurance now but the girl's dad said no they're closed).

It's currently 2:30 and I'm finally getting tired so I'm going to sleep and call the insurance in the morning - hopefully I'll not be too late waking up.

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 From:  Lucy (X3N0PH0N)  
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)     
41449.5 In reply to 41449.1 
/////////// (hug) //////////

I'd imagine you're not going to sleep well tonight. Play a game/read/watch a film/do whatever relaxes you. And take tomorrow off if needs be.

Oh I just realised what time it is (been playing Pillars of Eternity  (wizard) ). You're probably already not sleeping well.

Hope you feel alreet, Petey (hug)

 
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 From:  Lucy (X3N0PH0N)  
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)     
41449.6 In reply to 41449.1 
Also it's nice that everyone was nice. The girls' dad and the random trucky lady & man. That's nice.
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 From:  ANT_THOMAS  
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)     
41449.7 In reply to 41449.1 
Call your insurance ASAP.

They will only provide a courtesy car free of charge if that's in your cover.

It sounds like they were overtaking when they shouldn't have been. If you had indicated left then they might have an excuse, but even if you weren't indicating at all they shouldn't have been overtaking.
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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)  
 To:  Lucy (X3N0PH0N)     
41449.8 In reply to 41449.5 
Yeah. :(

Wasn't counting on that. I slept for about an hour then woke up. Managed to drift off a couple of times, maybe for another hour total. Was just getting sleepy again before my alarms spoiled it.

Couldn't eat much last night either so I'm hungry, but still no appetite. Making myself eat a creme caramel to hopefully get some energy.

I emailed work last night to say I'd be late, but I'd rather be there - easier to relax / take my mind of things.

Just got to get through breakfast then see what insurance company says.

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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)  
 To:  ANT_THOMAS     
41449.9 In reply to 41449.7 
In call queue now...

...to wrong department. Argh. Take two...

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 From:  milko  
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)     
41449.10 In reply to 41449.8 
Hey. So in a few weeks this will just be a thing you've experienced, so remember that nobody was hurt (well, you were a bit but it sounds like not too badly), and these things do happen. It's fairly fortunate that everything remained civil throughout. And what Xen said about nice people. How nice! Plus, didn't you say you were feeling like your car was starting to get a bit wonky now? Well that one's solved at least, because yes it sounds very unlikely to be worth repairing now.

From what you said it does sound like their fault - you shouldn't overtake people turning left anyway unless there's a whole overtaking lane to allow it. Here's something, you've already written it down here but get ready to write it all out slightly more formally for your insurance. As much detail as possible, but removing doubt over things like indicating. You did indicate! Basically it's now your insurance company's job to look after it, and their insurance company to try and weasel out of it most likely. If it comes to them admitting fault then their insurance ought to cover all your costs and courtesy car type things. And you'd not have to worry about no claims bonuses and so on (is yours protected, anyway? That's often a thing). Their insurance may try to push for a 50/50 split of the blame but I can't really see it - they drove into you from the back, pretty much.

> The first settlement offer for your car will probably be low - research what it's worth, with as much detail on model and year as you can. If they say £2000 and you can point to the same thing available for sale at £4000 at a dealer somewhere then you have the ammo to make them do better. It unfortunately is a negotiation thing from the start, they won't volunteer lots of money easily.

> Their insurance will potentially persuade them to not admit fault throughout unless they absolutely have to

> Independent witnesses would be useful for the above point but it sounds as though that's not happening here. So you may find it's a bit of a battle for the fault thing but it's your insurance company's job to fight that, you just have to stick to your story and be clear. The damage ought to show where the impact was and lead most of this anyway. 

> I don't think the police need to get involved in things like this so don't worry about that, it would probably only have complicated things.

 
milko
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 From:  Lucy (X3N0PH0N)  
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)     
41449.11 In reply to 41449.8 
I strongly recommend chamomile tea. Seems to work for some people but not others (gives me a 30 minute window where I can fall asleep quite easily, which is *extremely unusual* for me).

And/or whiskey.
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 From:  ANT_THOMAS  
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)     
41449.12 In reply to 41449.1 
What pizza did you have?
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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)  
 To:  milko     
41449.13 In reply to 41449.10 
Thanks.

I was feeling a lot better after simply talking to the insurance person.

They mentioned it might be split responsibility because I couldn't confirm I had checked my blindspot (I don't remember; I usually do so probably did, but couldn't say for sure).

However, I just had a call from the person representing the other party, and they've accepted liability. Also, they are going to be organising a courtesy car within the next 4-5 working hours, and someone's going to call to check health-wise. (I think I'm ok, but better to be safe.)

Just cleared my stuff from the car and waiting on the call from the company that'll be taking it away.

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 From:  milko  
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)     
41449.14 In reply to 41449.13 
That's some more good luck that they've admitted liability. The correct response again was "yes of course I checked my blind spot"! The thing is, nobody actually specifically remembers all of these things every time they do them really do they? Don't actually lie if you know you didn't do something, but at the same time give yourself a bit of a positive outlook.

I'm not convinced I do a blind spot check for every right turn actually, I'm more likely to trust my mirror observations that I'll have been doing from a while before the turn. Hmm, might have to fix that!

edit - the thing about the value of your car is still going to apply by the way - get yourself armed with some prices on the same car in year, mileage and condition (yours was of course A1 before it got driven into) and you'll be OK.
milko
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 From:  ANT_THOMAS  
 To:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)     
41449.15 In reply to 41449.13 

However, I just had a call from the person representing the other party, and they've accepted liability. Also, they are going to be organising a courtesy car within the next 4-5 working hours, and someone's going to call to check health-wise. (I think I'm ok, but better to be safe.)

That is good news, sounds like it will be far less hassle than it could have been.
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 From:  ANT_THOMAS  
 To:  milko     
41449.16 In reply to 41449.14 
When I started driving I checked the blind spot pretty much all the time, I think it was because I rode a moped for a while before hand where it was essential - the "life saver".

Lately I've been doing it more again because there's been a few moments when getting on a certain motorway I've missed seeing cars already on the motorway. It's an odd one where my car has shit mirrors and the motorway is higher than the slip road.
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 From:  fixrman  
 To:  milko     
41449.17 In reply to 41449.10 
This.

And any improvements you made on the vehicle recently should be accounted for. They don't usually pay much, but they are going to bang you (YJ) for Unrelated Prior Damage anyway so you might as well get some back.

Also, here if the insurance company makes what an owner feels is an exceedingly low settlement, they can be forced to provide a "like kind and quality" replacement at their cost. That can be a bit of work and research to them so sometimes they just ask for a number that works for you. Make it a thousand pounds higher than what you feel is fair. I hope your head is OK and the young lady also suffered no ill will. She made a driving error, but it was still an accident rather than an "intentional".  ;-)
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  fixrman  
 To:  milko     
41449.18 In reply to 41449.14 
How can a driver check their blind spot if it is blind?? That is like saying to the blind man, "Now, see here!"
 
  Did you ever see such a messed up situation in your whole life, son?
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 From:  milko  
 To:  ANT_THOMAS     
41449.19 In reply to 41449.16 
I do do it on motorways every time for merging and overtaking and the like, way too easy for someone to sneak in there. I'm just not sure I would always for a right turn on a residential type road - I've been indicating ahead of time, I'm in the middle of the road so anyone passing that side would have to be in the oncoming traffic's lane and as I say I'll usually have a pretty good awareness anyway. But that probably doesn't account enough for any suicidal bikers/moped riders in the vicinity so I will have to consciously think about it next time and see what I do.
milko
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 From:  Peter (BOUGHTONP)  
 To:  milko     
41449.20 In reply to 41449.14 
Did a quick search and value seems to be £3k some similar age/mileage.

There are some really low price ones with high mileages, so will probably have to be firm there.

Will be a couple of days before the insurance people collect it, so I'll investigate more later.

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