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 From:  Queeg 500 (JESUSONEEZ)   22 Apr 2013 11:04 
 To:  ALL 1 of 32 
40448.1 
So, they're bringing back the 'Start' button and allowing boot directly to desktop. A step backwards or is this how it should have bloody worked for desktop machines in the first place?

Maybe they should just call it Windows 7.8

Discuss.

EDIT: I for one am pleased that I'll be able to get XBMC to start at boot without resorting to faffing around with third party 'fixes'.

Windows 8 - We hate it in the pants, panties and in the ear
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 From:  Dan (HERMAND)   22 Apr 2013 11:17 
 To:  Queeg 500 (JESUSONEEZ)      2 of 32 
40448.2 In reply to 40448.1 
Is this actually true, or just rumour? This is the first I've heard of anything other than "No, not ever, it stays like it is"

Dan Herman
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 From:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)   22 Apr 2013 13:11 
 To:  Dan (HERMAND)      3 of 32 
40448.3 In reply to 40448.2 
I'm hearing some of it's true.  I heard the start button is coming back but it takes you to the Metro start screen.  And I heard boot to desktop is coming back.
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I'm not sick, but I'm not well
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 From:  PNCOOL   22 Apr 2013 13:36 
 To:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)      4 of 32 
40448.4 In reply to 40448.3 
Isn't that what clicking where the start menu button used to be does now anyway?

PNCOOL
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 From:  Queeg 500 (JESUSONEEZ)   22 Apr 2013 14:06 
 To:  Dan (HERMAND)      5 of 32 
40448.5 In reply to 40448.2 
I haven't looked any further than the article, but Paul Thurrott's site is usually pretty accurate when it comes to this sort of thing. I've grown to like it better over the last year or so as he's become quite critical of MS in that time. Beforehand it was a bit MS love-in.

If the Start button is just going to zap you back to Metro then yeah, a bit pointless. It's more the 'straight to desktop' boot feature that I'm interested in.

Just had a quick browse and plenty of sites are reporting it, but most are citing Paul's site as the source, and I can't find any article that says whether the Start button will jump to 'Metro' or function more akin to Windows 7.

Blue is leaking like a rusty bucket at the moment, so I'm sure we'll know soon enough.

Windows 8 - We hate it in the pants, panties and in the ear
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 From:  Ken (SHIELDSIT)   22 Apr 2013 14:27 
 To:  PNCOOL     Queeg 500 (JESUSONEEZ)      6 of 32 
40448.6 In reply to 40448.5 
Yeah that's what it already does and what all the windows buttons do on my computer, so yeah a bit pointless.

I listen to Paul and Mary Jo on TWIT every week, that's also where I heard it.  They can't be 100% sure on anything at the moment but they were discussing the impact a full, old school start menu would have on Metro developers and that MS would probably just make the button go to the new start screen.
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I'm not sick, but I'm not well
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 From:  Dave!!   22 Apr 2013 18:00 
 To:  Queeg 500 (JESUSONEEZ)      7 of 32 
40448.7 In reply to 40448.1 
It will be interesting. I agree with Paul that the biggest flaw with Windows 8 was the complete removal of the old Start Menu feature. I used the classic Start Menu initially in XP until I got used to the newer one, and allowing me to transition in such a way made the OS much more acceptable.

Another weird feature IMO is that they also removed Aero (again, classic has remained in Windows for ages). Personally, I don't like the flattened look in Windows 8 as it makes the OS look old and tired to me. I actually like flashy stuff to some degree so long as it doesn't detract from usability. It's not so much the transparency and glass I miss, it's the more "3D" look to the buttons etc. Heck even back in Windows 3.1 buttons were designed to look 3D. Windows 8 just looks flat, lifeless and crap IMO. And MS again went down the route of "Our way, or fuck you", which is very unlike MS of old to be honest.
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 From:  Wattsy (SLAYERPUNX)   22 Apr 2013 18:47 
 To:  Queeg 500 (JESUSONEEZ)      8 of 32 
40448.8 In reply to 40448.1 
You can boot 8 straight to XBMC now without any third party fixes. It's a simple reg hack. I have it booting to XBMC now my living room Pc.

http://cybernetnews.com/xbmc-run-boot-xbmc-startup-windows-8/
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 From:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)   22 Apr 2013 19:05 
 To:  Dave!!      9 of 32 
40448.9 In reply to 40448.7 
I like the mainstream trend towards flat design (stuff like this) and the move away from the Apple-ish faux-3d and skeuomorphism of the past decade or so. Much cleaner, more readable, more genuinely computery.

I like metro aesthetically and in terms of how it presents information, it's just shit in terms of usability. My problem with Win8 (aside from political stuff) is that it's two half-finished UIs, neither of which is fully usable alone.

But yeah, get used to flat design and Swiss layouts, you'll be seeing a lot of it for the next decade or so :Y
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 From:  william (WILLIAMA)   22 Apr 2013 21:46 
 To:  Drew (X3N0PH0N)      10 of 32 
40448.10 In reply to 40448.9 
For me, the problems with Windows 8 centre on the utterly perverse decisions around how some actions pan out. For instance, I take an SD card of photos and plug it in to my card reader slot. Yep, the file explorer window begins to flash - all fine so far. So I open file explorer. There are my photos and I double click one. Excellent, it opens and I browse it.

Now I'd quite like to see another.

Bad luck if you're expecting anything friendly about this. No handy arrows on screen, nothing if you optimistically click a left or right button. A desperate stab at Esc only dumps you in the  bizarre start screen with no obvious way back.

Pan around with the cursor while viewing a photo and you'll find all sorts of useful things with nothing to do with what you're actually doing at the moment.

Turns out that your route back into the folder is hidden away in a tiny spot in the top left of the screen. Even then all that gives you is a long-winded chance to double click another file.

It's as though this was designed by somebody deliberately setting out to ignore anything good or useful about previous incarnations of Windows. I suppose it's another example of the corporate mantra that change is good as an end in itself.
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 From:  Queeg 500 (JESUSONEEZ)   23 Apr 2013 09:12 
 To:  Wattsy (SLAYERPUNX)      11 of 32 
40448.11 In reply to 40448.8 
I know you can change XBMC to be the shell instead of explorer.exe but I also have SABnzbd, SickBeard and Couchpotato starting up in Windows (once I've clicked 'Desktop').

Dave, I also miss 3D buttons. Buttons are supposed to be 3D. You push them, therefore they are buttons, dammit.

Windows 8 - We hate it in the pants, panties and in the ear
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 From:  Dan (HERMAND)   23 Apr 2013 12:51 
 To:  Queeg 500 (JESUSONEEZ)      12 of 32 
40448.12 In reply to 40448.11 
Desktop boots on logon, in the background anyway.

Dan Herman
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 From:  THERE IS NO GOD BUT (RENDLE)   23 Apr 2013 13:11 
 To:  ALL 13 of 32 
40448.13 
Speculative speculation is speculative.

 :-{)

Happy now?
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 From:  milko   23 Apr 2013 13:37 
 To:  THERE IS NO GOD BUT (RENDLE)      14 of 32 
40448.14 In reply to 40448.13 
*I know and you don't nyah nyah

more like!
milko
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 From:  THERE IS NO GOD BUT (RENDLE)   23 Apr 2013 14:04 
 To:  milko      15 of 32 
40448.15 In reply to 40448.14 
No comment.

Happy now?
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 From:  graphitone   23 Apr 2013 14:36 
 To:  THERE IS NO GOD BUT (RENDLE)      16 of 32 
40448.16 In reply to 40448.15 
Ah go on, let us in on the secret. Then we can all blab our source and you'll be famous like that Thurott twat chap.


images?q=tbn:8nj2HfmLhyV7yM:b
Drawings n' that
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 From:  Queeg 500 (JESUSONEEZ)   24 Apr 2013 11:42 
 To:  Dan (HERMAND)      17 of 32 
40448.17 In reply to 40448.12 
Really? Everything I've ready has said that nothing in your Startup folder will start until you open the Desktop...

Windows 8 - We hate it in the pants, panties and in the ear
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 From:  Dan (HERMAND)   24 Apr 2013 13:02 
 To:  Queeg 500 (JESUSONEEZ)      18 of 32 
40448.18 In reply to 40448.17 
They're wrong!

Dan Herman
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 From:  Matt   24 Apr 2013 13:23 
 To:  Dan (HERMAND)      19 of 32 
40448.19 In reply to 40448.18 
Are you sure?

I've done this (replacing the shell with XBMC.exe) and I'm sure I had the exact same symptom Jesus mentions. Entries in the Registry "Run" keys and Scheduled Tasks set to run before/on Login do start, but none of shortcuts placed in the Startup directory are run.

That was with Windows 7, not tried it with Windows 8 admittedly.

doohicky
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 From:  Dan (HERMAND)   24 Apr 2013 13:29 
 To:  Matt      20 of 32 
40448.20 In reply to 40448.19 
Oh, yes, sorry - Start Up Folder I'm not sure about. I only have one small tray icon in there.

Personally, I'd just put everything into Registry Run key if that's a problem.

(This isn't the most secure thing, but I have my laptop set to automatically log in. Nothing fancy, just the same as logging in at the console, as in it goes to Metro. In the registry run keys I have got a .vbs script which locks the workstation. I boot my laptop, get a brew and by the time I get back it's locked and everything is ready to go)

Edit: No, that's a lie - I had a feeling. My .vbs script is in Start-Up and definitely runs with no interaction.

Edit 2: I'm miles away today. Yeah, it won't work if you replace the shell. That makes sense because explorer.exe is responsible for running things in the Start Up folder.

Dan Herman
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