AC Adapter Question

From: Dan (HERMAND)16 Oct 2014 22:59
To: fixrman 14 of 40
But a current rating is simply a maximum output - current is drawn, not pushed, else your 60w lightbulb wouldn't last many minutes on a 1200w (average) circuit!
From: koswix17 Oct 2014 00:05
To: fixrman 15 of 40
What Dan said - your power supplies are constant voltage, not constant current. The current drawn will be whatever is needed by the device.

Generally if you try and draw too much for an extended period the supply will die.
From: koswix17 Oct 2014 00:09
To: fixrman 16 of 40
>>You also might pop some cheap capacitors and electrolytics.

Possibly, but 2 volts extra shouldnt dshouldn't do much. I'd wager that most components (even I'm cheap dodgy stuff) will be over specified because it's cheaper to go for the mass made stuff that's readily available than it is to get something that exactly matches your requirements.

If 14v would kill it, I'd wager it's got a fairly limited life on 12v anyway.

I should probably stress again that I'm just guessing here. I'm no electromagician.
EDITED: 17 Oct 2014 00:09 by KOSWIX
From: fixrman17 Oct 2014 02:55
To: Dan (HERMAND) 17 of 40
If I have an electronic unit that I like, why would I take a chance that the adapter is crap and smokes it? You can with yours, I'll just use the right one thanks.
From: fixrman17 Oct 2014 02:58
To: koswix 18 of 40
Quote: 
Possibly, but 2 volts extra shouldnt dshouldn't do much. I'd wager that most components (even I'm cheap dodgy stuff) will be over specified because it's cheaper to go for the mass made stuff that's readily available than it is to get something that exactly matches your requirements.

Tell that to the speaker amp I just repaired. Quote: 


If 14v would kill it, I'd wager it's got a fairly limited life on 12v anyway.

Or maybe it is old and just can't handle it any more. Surely you've replaced a motherboard at least once for failed caps?
 

From: koswix17 Oct 2014 07:00
To: fixrman 19 of 40
>>Surely you've replaced a motherboard at least once for failed caps

Nope, I missed that bandwagon. That debacle was due to badly made electrolytic capacitors, I think.
From: fixrman17 Oct 2014 12:15
To: koswix 20 of 40
Yes, that is true. Bad or poorly made power supplies could accelarate the popcorn effect.
From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)17 Oct 2014 17:19
To: fixrman 21 of 40
Had an ide channel on an old-ish mb (or associated caps, which were visibly popped) & an attached hdd blown by a lightning-induced power surge.
From: fixrman17 Oct 2014 17:30
To: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX) 22 of 40
Yes, they don't like that much, do they?
EDITED: 17 Oct 2014 17:30 by FIXRMAN
From: Dan (HERMAND)17 Oct 2014 23:38
To: fixrman 23 of 40
Because the chance is zero, due to physics!
From: CHYRON (DSMITHHFX)18 Oct 2014 01:13
To: fixrman 24 of 40
What surprised me was that it still ran off the other channel. Apparently the PSU itself was undamaged.
From: fixrman18 Oct 2014 03:42
To: Dan (HERMAND) 25 of 40
I'll bet you whistle in the dark as well, for safety.
From: Dan (HERMAND)18 Oct 2014 16:13
To: fixrman 26 of 40
I'm not with you now
From: fixrman18 Oct 2014 16:40
To: Dan (HERMAND) 27 of 40
That's OK. Basically I am saying that a poorly designed power supply can cause problems irrespective of it's design. You don't happen to agree with me. The fact that an adapter [may be] designed poorly, or the device,  may cause a problem when using an adapter that is over spec for the device it is to power and could damage it - even though your physics explanation makes sense. An inferior product can always damage another component.

Many people do not know that one is not really supposed to charge a cell phone via the same adaptor they charge their iPad with and vice versa, even though it is more or less "approved" by Apple, to wit:
 
Quote: 

All iOS devices (and most smartphones) charge at 5 volts, the standard for USB devices. The difference between the iPhone and iPad adapters is the rated amperage—the iPad charger is rated to handle 2.1 amps, while the iPhone charger is rated for 1 amp. But the amperage rating is only a measure of the adapter's maximum capability—the actual amperage is determined by the load (i.e., the iPad or iPhone). According to Steve Sandler, founder and chief technical officer of AEi Systems, an electronics analysis company, modern battery-powered electronics have a lot of complexity between the charger and the battery, including battery-charging circuits within the device and battery-protection circuits in the lithium-ion battery itself. These circuits are designed to manage the flow of electricity to the battery, and if the circuits inside the iPhone were designed to tolerate 1 amp, but are routinely exposed to 2 amps, that could stress the system over time. "Even though you may not instantaneously say, 'Wow, I just destroyed my battery!' you may limit its life over the long term," Sandler says, "but you wouldn't know for a year or more." Our advice: Since Apple claims compatibility between the iPad charger and iPhone, pay for the extended two-year warranty for the iPhone to ride out your cell contract, and charge it however you like. If your battery degrades severely after the first year make Apple give you a new one.
~ From Popular Mechanics

I certainly wouldn't charge my iPad with the cell phone charger. I have seen it done and the adapter gets hot. The battery life of an iPhone likely will be shortened if one charges the cell (iPhone) via the iPad charger. The battery in the iPhone is not user replaceable (for most consumers), so despite Apple's assertion that they are compatible, a shortened battery life means Apple gets to sell a new phone if the battery life is poor and we all know iPhones do not enjoy stellar battery life anyway; so if the battery life is shortened by incorrect charger use, the chargers are not 100% compatible.

I don't have an iPhone so Fruitco devotees are free to abuse their equipment as they see fit. I'd say the same logic would apply to pretty much any consumer grade device that needs to be charged or would otherwise use an AC adapter, but that is my opinion only.
EDITED: 18 Oct 2014 16:42 by FIXRMAN
From: Dan (HERMAND)18 Oct 2014 17:35
To: fixrman 28 of 40
The red bit is factually wrong. A device will draw what it needs - all USB plugs are 5v, the only danger is plugging a high current device into a low current output.

How can an iPhone be 'exposed' to 2A when it only draws 1A.
From: Chris (CHRISSS)18 Oct 2014 19:13
To: Dan (HERMAND) 29 of 40
My Charge Doctor:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2451375

shows my 2A charger outputting about 1.5A to my phone and even less to my wife's phone, so as you say, just because it is rated at 2A doesn't mean it outputs that all the time.
From: koswix18 Oct 2014 19:51
To: fixrman 30 of 40
What Dan said.

The lipo charging circuit will determine how much current to charge the battery with. The limits are hard coded into the controller. Unless you had a constant current power supply (you don't) then it's never going to feed more current than the battery system was designed to handle.

You'll also find that the charging circuit varies the rate of charge based on a number of factors - current battery voltage, temperature - and it'll range from a couple of hundred milliamp up to the maximum charge value (which is determined by the battery design).

Also the device should "sense" whether it's attached to a 1am or 2amp supply, I think by detecting a certain resistance value between two of the pins on the connector.
From: fixrman19 Oct 2014 02:39
To: Dan (HERMAND) 31 of 40
I didn't write it, mate. I only knows what happens when one uses the little charger on an iPad. Apparently /those/ folks looked into it, I haven't the time. Folks are free to fuck up their electronics as they please, if they will. I value them too much.
From: fixrman19 Oct 2014 02:46
To: koswix 32 of 40
I am not arguing theories or principles. I merely said in the event that an adapter not designed well (there are tolerances, you know) it could cause undesirable effects. Since i have no intention of testing "incorrect" adapters on any of my electronics, it doesn't matter.

Here's what will mattter: If the wife, daughter or son, who has been instructed on which charger to use, refuses and uses an incorrect charger in either device and it fails, it WILL NOT be replaced with our money. It is my kingdom so I get to make the rules. It's good to be the king.  ;-)
From: 99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)19 Oct 2014 14:02
To: fixrman 33 of 40
I think the point is that the part highlighted in red is taken out of context, particularly in terms of the first half of the sentence. Reading it another way, if the circuits were exposed to 2A they'd be damaged, but that doesn't happen because of all the other stuff.

But it doesn't hurt just to use the proper charger anyway.