obama's speech - Teh Forum

<body> <div id="header"> <span class="left"> <span class="back"><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT"><span class="image mobile_back" title="Back"></span></a></span> <span class="image mobile_logo" title="Beehive Forum Logo"></span> </span> <ul> <li> <a class="reply_all" href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41193.0&return_msg=41193.53"> <span class="image mobile_reply_all"></span><span class="text">Reply to All</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="navigation" href="#"> <span class="image mobile_navigation"></span><span class="text">Show messages</span> </a> </li> <li> <a class="main" href="#"><span class="image mobile_menu" title="Menu"></span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu main"> <ul> <li><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Messages</a></li> <li><a href="lpm.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Inbox</a></li> <li><a href="lsearch.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Search</a></li> <li><a href="llogon.php?webtag=DEFAULT">Login</a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="menu navigation"><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.1">1–10</a>…<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.31">31–40</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.41">41–50</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.51">51–60</a><a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.61">61–70</a>…<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.81">81–88</a></div> <div id="page_content"> <h3 class="thread_title"><a href="index.php?webtag=DEFAULT&amp;msg=41193.53">obama's speech</a> </h3> <div id="messages" data-navigation="41193_53_88_10"> <a name="a41193_53"></a><div class="message" id="message_41193_53"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">17 Sep 2014 07:43</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: fixrman <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Sep 2014 12:53"></span></span> <span class="message_count">53 of 88</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.53">41193.53</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.50">41193.50</a></div> <div class="message_body"> What is wrong with abortion being used as a form birth control when required?<br /><br /><br /> From a medical/physical POV I can see there being an issue, as well as from a psychological POV.<br /><br /> But otherwise, what is the issue?</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41193.53&return_msg=41193.53" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41193.53"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41193_54"></a><div class="message" id="message_41193_54"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time">17 Sep 2014 08:02</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Sep 2014 08:07"></span></span> <span class="message_count">54 of 88</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.54">41193.54</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.53#a41193_53" target="_self">41193.53</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I was stating a personal ethical belief there (hence 'I believe') rather than trying to make any sort of objective argument. I, myself, would not want to have an abortion for the same reason I won't kill insects. I don't believe I have a right to do those things. But I don't believe that holding that belief gives <em>me</em> the right to tell anyone else what to do or judge them for whatever they do. I don't see it as an absolute moral issue (as the Catholic Church does, for example), just my personal ethical choice.<br /><br /> And I did say they have every right to use it in such a way if they really want to. Though I'd argue that if it really is used in lieu of other forms of birth control (i.e. the decisions is made upfront to use abortion instead of condoms or whatever) then that's a pretty wasteful use of resources.<br /><br /> (Sorry if that sounds snappy. Reading it back it sounds a bit snappy but I don't mean it that way)<br /><br /><br /> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41193.54&return_msg=41193.53" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41193.54"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41193_55"></a><div class="message" id="message_41193_55"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">17 Sep 2014 08:12</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Sep 2014 08:22"></span></span> <span class="message_count">55 of 88</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.55">41193.55</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.53#a41193_54" target="_self">41193.54</a></div> <div class="message_body"> That was addressed to Fixrman!<br /><br /> I don't have an issue with your view because you don't believe you have the right to force it upon others.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41193.55&return_msg=41193.53" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41193.55"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41193_56"></a><div class="message" id="message_41193_56"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time">17 Sep 2014 08:23</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Sep 2014 08:23"></span></span> <span class="message_count">56 of 88</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.56">41193.56</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.53#a41193_55" target="_self">41193.55</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Hah. I have absolutely no idea why I thought that post was to me -_-</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41193.56&return_msg=41193.53" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41193.56"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41193_57"></a><div class="message" id="message_41193_57"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: milko<span class="message_time">17 Sep 2014 09:09</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: ANT_THOMAS <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Sep 2014 09:14"></span></span> <span class="message_count">57 of 88</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.57">41193.57</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.53#a41193_53" target="_self">41193.53</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext"><strong>Quote:</strong> </div> <div class="quote"><span style="font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);">From a medical/physical POV I can see there being an issue, as well as from a psychological POV.</span><br style="font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);" /><br style="font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);" /><span style="font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);">But otherwise, what is the issue?</span></div> <br /> So, apart from physically and mentally, what's the issue? What's left for there to be an issue with?</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41193.57&return_msg=41193.53" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41193.57"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41193_58"></a><div class="message" id="message_41193_58"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: ANT_THOMAS<span class="message_time">17 Sep 2014 09:15</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: milko <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Sep 2014 10:34"></span></span> <span class="message_count">58 of 88</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.58">41193.58</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.53#a41193_57" target="_self">41193.57</a></div> <div class="message_body"> If you consider it to be an issue, there could be a moral/ethical issue.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41193.58&return_msg=41193.53" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41193.58"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41193_59"></a><div class="message" id="message_41193_59"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: 99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)<span class="message_time">17 Sep 2014 09:40</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Sep 2014 09:48"></span></span> <span class="message_count">59 of 88</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.59">41193.59</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.53#a41193_54" target="_self">41193.54</a></div> <div class="message_body"> <div class="quotetext"><b>quote:</b> <a href="messages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.54">X3N0PH0N</a></div> <div class="quote">I, myself, would not want to have an abortion</div> <p>You can't have an abortion, you haven't got a womb<br /> </reg></p> <div class="edit_text">EDITED: 17 Sep 2014 09:41 by MR_BASTARD</div> </div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41193.59&return_msg=41193.53" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41193.59"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41193_60"></a><div class="message" id="message_41193_60"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: Drew (X3N0PH0N)<span class="message_time">17 Sep 2014 09:49</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: 99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Sep 2014 09:55"></span></span> <span class="message_count">60 of 88</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.60">41193.60</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.53#a41193_59" target="_self">41193.59</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Racist.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41193.60&return_msg=41193.53" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41193.60"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41193_61"></a><div class="message" id="message_41193_61"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: 99% of gargoyles look like (MR_BASTARD)<span class="message_time">17 Sep 2014 09:55</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Sep 2014 10:10"></span></span> <span class="message_count">61 of 88</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.61">41193.61</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.53#a41193_60" target="_self">41193.60</a></div> <div class="message_body"> Poof.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41193.61&return_msg=41193.53" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41193.61"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div><a name="a41193_62"></a><div class="message" id="message_41193_62"> <div class="message_header"> <div class="message_from"> From: fixrman<span class="message_time">17 Sep 2014 13:26</span> <div class="clearer"></div> </div><div class="message_to">To: Drew (X3N0PH0N) <span><span class="image post_read" title="Read: 17 Sep 2014 14:45"></span></span> <span class="message_count">62 of 88</span><div class="clearer"></div> </div> </div> <div class="message_links"> <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.62">41193.62</a> In reply to <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=DEFAULT&msg=41193.51">41193.51</a></div> <div class="message_body"> I don't know how you can possibly say I excuse men from shirking responsibility. What stronger language can I use to condemn men who impregnate women and do not contribute to their support? Fucksticks? Assholes? Pricks, jerkoffs wankers, pigs, whaleshit-eating scumbags? They are all that and more.<br /><br /> Sorry if it gets your goat so to speak and I do understand the defense of women, but it is not entirely an equal issue, to wit:<br /><br /> The man gets what he wants, a time of pleasure with the woman. She also is an active and eager participant. Three months later a phone call is made after which point the guy has long lost interest, perhaps. So he declines further involvement. The woman is still pregnant.<br /><br /> Regardless of your personal feelings on the plight of the woman and the responsibility of the man - should he not take his equal responsibility with the pregnancy - she is still pregnant and has an issue to deal with and choices to make. If he walks away, then she will make those decisions possibly alone and that may include abortion. She will have to pay for it if he doesn't. Because she is the one to suffer the most consequences of the liason (unfortunately), it is therefore more incumbent for the woman to ensure a wise decision is made. My <em>personal</em> feeling is different however than my <em>general</em> feeling on the matter. I could not and would not walk away from a situation like that because I accept personal responsibility. But I do know men, I know the statistics involved and unfortunately if the man won't take precautions the woman should. If a woman and man have sex and pregnancy results and because either they jointly or singularly(in the case of the female, he cannot force an abortion, well that would be extreme) decide then it is <em>de facto</em> birth control. There is no way on God's Green earth that a woman<em> or man</em> cannot know about the possibility of pregnancy in today's day and age.<br /><br /> It is a subtle and fairly nuanced difference in responsibility only because of the consequence. It should be shared responsibility but too often it is not, unless of course the woman want to foce the issue through legal remedies which would be her right, but how many women will actually do that? It does not inherently excuse the man, you are playing semantics.<br /><br /> See how easy it is to turn into a politically charged issue - and it only took <em>one word</em>.<br /><br /> For the record, I do agree with you that there is responsibility -total - on both parts. In a perfect world we don't even have this discussion because there would be no alcohol or drug-fueled or otherwise thoughtless sexual liasons with untimely consequences. But we do not live in a perfect world and people do not submit to moral issues very well which is why they end up being politically charged, They want somebody to make a decision for them and absolve them of the ramifications of their actions. Nobody wins, neither in the beginning nor in the end.</div> <div class="message_footer"> <div class="message_footer_links"><a href="lpost.php?webtag=DEFAULT&reply_to=41193.62&return_msg=41193.53" class="reply"><span class="image post"></span>Reply</a></div> <div class="message_vote_form" data-msg="41193.62"> <span class="rating">0/0</span> <span class="image vote vote_down vote_down_off" title="Vote Down"></span> <span class="image vote vote_up vote_up_off" title="Vote Up"></span> </div> </div> </div></div> <div class="message_page_footer"> <ul> <li class="right_col"><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="DEFAULT" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="41193.63" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="keep_reading" value="Keep reading…" class="button" /></form></li> </ul> </div> </div> </body>